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Splattered23's avatar
Splattered23
New Contributor II
11 months ago

Does MoCA work if we use our own modem?

Hello!

I have been researching newer mesh networking systems for a few days now and think I've landed on the Asus XT12 or ET12. Currently I am using a Netgear CM1000 modem (1gb) and the Netgear XR500 gaming router. Both are 5+ years old now and I'm looking for an upgrade. I currently subscribe to 1gb cable with cable phone line as well, but no tv services. The phone line is actually driven by a Cisco modem that belongs to Cox so need to mention that as well. I was originally set to buy the XT12 system that uses 5ghz-2 between the two mesh units for the backhaul but kept seeing people mentioning hard wiring it with a MoCA connection. Soooo I started down that rabbit hole a bit today and initially got excited with the potential of very high speeds at both points in my house. THEN I decided to Google cox communications compatibility and see lots of posts stating the Cox disables MoCA multiple times a day on people. Would I have to worry about Cox interfering with my simply boosting my Internet speeds on an extender? If not, do I need to do anything special to get this work as effectively as possible? I game a LOT on Xbox Series X, PS5, have a gaming PC etc and need to keep lag/latency as low as possible.

  • Splattered23's avatar
    Splattered23
    New Contributor II
    11 months ago

    Wow my house box/enclosure is a mess inside haha... Just had a zip tie on it I snipped off to look inside. it has a 3 way splitter and a MoCA filter that isn't actually attached to anything on the other end. So it has the main line coming in and then off that splitter the newer main line goes up the side of the house and through the ceiling into a bedroom upstairs where the modem and router are. That appears to be the only connected active line I have right now.

     

  • WiderMouthOpen's avatar
    WiderMouthOpen
    Esteemed Contributor
    11 months ago

    In short; yes, it will work.

    What Cox disables is the MoCA adapter inside the Panoramic gateway(modem/router combo), which you don't have. You would want to use two seperate MoCA adapters, 1 two-way splitter, 1 three-way splitter and a MoCA(AKA POE) filter at the demarc. See picture below as found here. That shows a system with 3 adapters while it sounds like you only need 2. One to connect to your router and one to connect to the AP/extender. The 3-way splitter would be the first splitter, splitting it between your phone modem, the 2nd adapter and the 2nd two-way splitter. The 2nd two way splitter would split it between your internet modem and 1st adapter. You could get away with 2 two-way splitters if you upgraded your phone modem to DOCSIS 3.1(TM3402) and used it for phone and internet. The TM3402 is a free lease that you only get from Cox. The MoCA filter protects your MoCA's privacy and keeps the signal from backfeeding into the Cox system. I hope that wasn't too confusing. Feel free to ask questions.

     

    • Splattered23's avatar
      Splattered23
      New Contributor II
      11 months ago

      Thank you! That was more or less what I was hoping to hear... But yeah I'm confused a bit haha. The diagram shows a three way splitter on the main line into the house, and then that goes out to a MoCA and then the modem on one connection, and then off to the extender upstairs but directly via a line off the three way splitter? I must have misunderstood how this works as I thought you could use the coax that is already run through the walls into another room. So say start in the office with modem upstairs with one MoCA, then use the coax coming out of the wall in a bedroom downstairs into a MoCA and that into the access point. This diagram makes it look like I would need to run cable from upstairs to downstairs on a dedicated line. At that point why wouldn't I just use a really long patch cable? I thought it passed through the coax patch located on the outside of the house somehow. I don't know if I can realistically even run a cable all through the house between floors as I have kids and pets. Crap.

      Also as I talk through this I remember seeing a Netgear CM2050V modem on Amazon that has voice? *Nvm that appears to be for Xfinity only. Shoot.

      • WiderMouthOpen's avatar
        WiderMouthOpen
        Esteemed Contributor
        11 months ago
        Splattered23 wrote:

        This diagram makes it look like I would need to run cable from upstairs to downstairs on a dedicated line.

        Just a oversimplification of the picture. You can use the coaxial lines in the wall as long as the splitter connecting those outlets is MoCA compatible. How many active outlets do you have in your house and what connects them?

        Splattered23 wrote:

        I thought it passed through the coax patch located on the outside of the house somehow.

        What do you mean by "patch"? Perhaps pictures would help?

        Splattered23 wrote:

        I remember seeing a Netgear CM2050V modem

        NO! You can only get the phone modem from Cox as it is a free lease where the modem still belongs to Cox. As in you have to return it if you cancel service or you will get charged. Cox won't add customer purchased phone modems(AKA eMTA) to your account. The reason you may want to upgrade and use your phone modem for internet is to save having to split the signal to get to the phone modem and internet modem. For every split you can get rid of increases your signal strength. To see your signal strength go to 192.168.100.1 in a browser(user;admin password;password) or see here  (page 15-16) for more info. It may or may not be a problem for you.

  • WiderMouthOpen's avatar
    WiderMouthOpen
    Esteemed Contributor
    11 months ago

    Well the good news is it looks like decent coaxial. Can't be sure if it's RG6 without seeing the writing on the coaxial wiring but it doesn't look too old and has good compression connectors. You should be able to use that.

    The bad news is I had a thought about what I told you last night. Basically you can't have a separate loop for your MoCA because the MoCA adapter and modem have to be running off the same outlet. I also see two coaxial coming out of that splitter. I assume one goes to the room the modem is in and one goes to the phone modem? Is that right? If so, is the phone modem in a room where you game and want the 2nd MoCA adapter for the AP to connect to? If so, you at least know what coaxial you want to connect to the new MoCA splitter. If not, you need some way of tracking which coaxial goes where. You could do it through trial and error by moving the modem into where you want the 2nd MoCA adapter and try connecting different coaxial to the splitter until the modem comes online. Another way to test it is with a cable tester. Basically you connect one piece to the outlet you want to know where it goes, which produces a signal in the line, then use the other piece to attach coaxial wire to until you see that signal in the tool. Once you know which one is which, you can set up the coaxial by using the picture above. Don't forget the MoCA splitters. You should be able to reuse the MoCA filter.

    • Splattered23's avatar
      Splattered23
      New Contributor II
      11 months ago

      Yeah they ran a brand new line from the service pole to the box/splitter and then a new line off the splitter into the house that leads to the modem. It's the coax that runs to the downstairs bedroom that i'm more worried about age/quality-wise. Thank you for linking that coax tool btw! 

      I just ran upstairs to check how it is wired in the bedroom w the modem/phone/router. The main line comes from the outside of the house up through the ceiling to the coax wall jack which then goes to the "in" port on a 3 way mocha splitter under the desk (No POE filter on this splitter or modem or anything - so no POE filters effectively on any of the runs?), from there one line goes "out" to the cable modem on top of the desk and another goes "out" to the phone modem that is under the desk. So all of that is on one line from the outside.

      As for the 3 way splitter in the outside enclosure... the "in" port is connected to a POE filter with like 6 inches of coax cable off the filter that isn't actually connected to anything. The actual main line coming in is connected to one of the "out" ports and then the line into the house itself is coming off of another "out" port.

      The second line i want to utilize for the 2nd mesh device is downstairs in our bedroom where i work/game most of the time. I found the coax jack behind our dresser with power beside it so i would just need to use a short coax cable to the floor below it where i set the adapter and purchase some CAT8 ethernet to run around half of the room (~20ft?) to the AP on my desk. From the AP i'd run CAT8 from its 3 lan ports to two Xboxes and my PC. 

       

      • WiderMouthOpen's avatar
        WiderMouthOpen
        Esteemed Contributor
        11 months ago
        Splattered23 wrote:

        The actual main line coming in is connected to one of the "out" ports

        Hmm, how is that even working then? Certainly not the "proper" way of doing it. Have you been having any problems with your phone or internet?

        As for the splitter inside, when you say 3 way, do you mean 1 input and 2 outputs? A "3way" usually refers to a splitter with 3 outputs. If actually a 3way then you should be able to use the 3rd output to go to the MoCA adapter. Then replace the outside splitter with a 2way MoCA splitter (which should actually strengthen/improve your signal). The tricky part is finding the coaxial that leads to the downstair bedroom. The cable tester should help with that but you could try doing it visually.

        PS. If I don't reply anymore today know that I am going through a decent snowstorm right now. Might lose power.

         

         

  • Splattered23's avatar
    Splattered23
    New Contributor II
    11 months ago

    Alrighty here you go... the uptime won't be much because i think i reset it recently

     

    • WiderMouthOpen's avatar
      WiderMouthOpen
      Esteemed Contributor
      11 months ago

      Good, looks strong enough for a 3.5dB drop. That would put your downstream around +2dB and upstream around 46dB. If you would want to improve that you can always swap out the Cisco phone modem(DPQ3212?) for a TM3402. Notice this is a phone modem and NOT a gateway(modem/router combo) so it will work with your router as long as it is provisioned for data too. If you did this you could replace the 3 way splitter inside with a 2 way which would make up for the 2 way splitter you would be putting outside. I understand if you want to use your own modem but just thought I would mention if incase you want to keep your signal as strong as possible.

      PS. I notice you have 8 upstream channels and no upstream OFDMA. Hopefully you get upgraded soon. What does your upload cap at? 32Mbps?

      • Splattered23's avatar
        Splattered23
        New Contributor II
        11 months ago

        Thank you! I think i want to stick to my own modem so i'm not forever paying to rent theirs.. 

        When you say you hope i get upgraded soon do you mean my internet service plan? Cause i'm already on the max i can get for my area. I get up in the 30s on my upload usual... to be honest i'm not sure what i cap out at? Seems like i have definitely gotten higher than 32Mbps. ATT Fiber up to 4 or 5GB down is close to my street but it will probably be a really long time till i have access to that if ever haha

        I just checked on my Xbox right now on the 2Ghz band and i'm seeing 92Mbps download, 2Mbps upload and 1% packet loss with kinda higher latency. Sometimes packet loss can be much higher than this too.

        What could be causing these issues? Just because i live outside of town by the lake? I'm wondering if getting a new MoCA setup with the new XT12 hardware would even improve any of this?

        I almost want to move back to town just so i have better internet haha this is very frustrating.